Game Date: Jun 4th, 2064
Discussion Forum
Forum >> Discussions >> Hidden Traits 
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| Post ID | Date & Time | Game Date | Function |
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| #44236 | 01/23/2017 4:53:49 am | ||
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MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive 
| A better throwing catcher may also reduce the number of stealing attempts. Try putting a 5 arm catcher behind the plate. (The bold emphasis is mine.) I'm not exactly opposed to hidden traits. That is, if we know they exist, but don't know the value for any player, I'm good with that. However, I don't like mysterious hidden secrets that we don't know about that affect the outcome of games. Unlike real baseball, we can't actually view anything, we don't have players or managers to talk to, etc. We're forced to make judgments based on things we "know," like player skills. It's hard enough trying to make solid decisions without knowing the super secret magic that goes on in the background. Even little things like a groundball to an infielder that goes for a hit is impossible to read. Should the infielder have made the play or not? We can't see the play, so we don't know. Things like that are acceptable here, even if extremely difficult to judge. Some hidden traits are obvious. Left/right splits. We are given data. Stolen base ability. That becomes clear in almost no time. But we don't even know what other hidden traits are there. The above recent quote from Steve is something I accidentally stumbled upon a few minutes ago. Is he "showing his hand" that Broken Bat catchers can influence pitching by the way they "call the game?" Who knows? Another thing that really upsets me about that statement, though, is how/where it was made. Is it in the news? Is it in the manual? No, it's in the Legends League thread. I cry foul big time on this. Whispering to Legends about possible game implementation is offensive to me. I've actually felt that way about many other topics before. I don't think game hints from The Maker are appropriate in threads at all. If someone misses it, they're at a disadvantage. This one, though, really set me off because it was in a thread that is designed to be for a very few teams. Dropping hints there really sucks, in my opinion. I admit, I don't like the truly hidden/completely unknown traits anyway, but I felt cheated by that comment. Other possible hidden traits: 1. Your home team doesn't do as well if the game's attendance is less than 80% capacity. 2. Your player will underperform when having marital troubles. 3. Some players play better on the weekends. Do I think any of those are true? Nope, but they might be. The catcher thing Steve mentioned is a definite possibility. |
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| #44245 | 01/23/2017 6:37:29 am | ||
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Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9608 Haverhill Halflings III.1 
| I don't think Steve was actually hinting at a hidden trait in that comment. Although it was a strange comment. I suspect he was just talking baseball. I do like hidden traits, but I agree that they should all be determinable. It should be possible to figure out if a player has a certain trait just by looking at enough data (made available to players). Stolen Bases and Splits are well known hidden traits, and good examples of this. Fragility and Clutch are suspected hidden traits, and we do have data that could lead towards indications. I agree things like "How well a catcher calls a game", would be a bit too obscure. How could anyone even determine that? A hidden trait that is not detectable is not very useful from a gameplay perspective. But I also don't think that is really a hidden trait. Just Steve talking baseball. |
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| #44249 | 01/23/2017 8:16:23 am | ||
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Tiger504 Joined: 06/17/2014 Posts: 1314 Kalamazoo Bloody Tigers III.4 
| I really don't know but I think it's possible. I remember a comment several seasons ago when guys on here were throwing any strong arm behind the plate because fielding didn't matter. Strong arm, good bat. That's all people looked for. The thread was about which position was most underestimated by players when setting up a team or defense or something like that. Steve stated it was catcher. I don't have a link but it was probably a discussion thread. I interpreted that to mean that catcher had some unseen (to us) effect on a teams performance and resolved at that time to train up some real catchers. Full C, not LH. Strong accurate arm. In the same way I value a quality CF, 2B, and SS. The center of a defense. Catcher also appears to me to be a position that takes longer to train. Another possible hidden trait. That all said, I think there are other undervalued positions in BB. And I also enjoy the mystery personally. It keeps things interesting. |
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| #44250 | 01/23/2017 8:17:14 am | ||
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Yuri84 Joined: 10/14/2014 Posts: 639 Apple Valley Raccoons IV.4 
| I'm personally more attracted to the "grabbing an angry batter as he tries to charge the mound" line. Would a left-handed penalty apply here?  |
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| #44251 | 01/23/2017 8:29:40 am | ||
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Tiger504 Joined: 06/17/2014 Posts: 1314 Kalamazoo Bloody Tigers III.4
| The game manual recommends RH catchers I believe. Edit: it does recommend RH because most batters are RH, making the throw to 2B easier. Another thought then...either the game engine gives LH a penalty at C in general or the batters plate side regarding the catcher's arm is calculated into the base stealing equation. If it's the latter, an argument could be made that at times, a LH catcher would be preferable. ie with a RHP vs a team with many LH and switch hitters that steal a lot. Updated Monday, January 23 2017 @ 8:37:07 am PST Updated Monday, January 23 2017 @ 8:43:40 am PST |
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| #44253 | 01/23/2017 11:18:43 am | ||
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Philliesworld Joined: 10/17/2014 Posts: 788 Pierre Jacobins III.3 
| I really don't mind hidden traits. But there is one that I think should not be hidden. And that is intelligence. Maybe it's not a trait at all in BB I don't know. But if it is a hidden trait I don't think it should be hidden. In reality you can soon see if someone is an intelligent person or not. Intelligence, Intellect, or Smartness whatever you want it called. Again if it is a brokenbat trait, would probably effect many traits such as a Catcher calling a good game, baserunning, when to steal, maybe even charging the pitcher, etc. Which if Intelligence would be shown it would give you somewhat of an overview of some of those hidden traits. Updated Monday, January 23 2017 @ 11:21:53 am PST Updated Monday, January 23 2017 @ 11:22:37 am PST |
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| #44258 | 01/23/2017 4:00:07 pm | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator 
| Catchers may also affect the game in other ways...preventing passed balls/wild pitches, fielding bunts, calling a good game behind the plate, grabbing an angry batter as he tries to charge the mound etc Wouldn't make much sense for me to disclose anything about specific hidden traits (if they do exist for example) -- seems like that would defeat the purpose. However, my statement above doesn't necessarily imply a hidden trait is controlling some or all of these game functions. Maybe some or all of them are affected simply by a catchers position rating/experience. BTW, in the future I will try to address these things in the Help or Discussion forums. Didn't mean to exclude anyone. Steve - Added the "specific" & "for example" to better clarify this statement. Updated Tuesday, January 24 2017 @ 11:48:12 pm PST |
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| #44261 | 01/23/2017 5:50:32 pm | ||
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Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9608 Haverhill Halflings III.1
| I think part of the confusion is that the catcher being referred to has a capital "C" and a 19 Arm. So other than hidden traits, there is nothing obviously lacking from his build. | ||
| #44270 | 01/23/2017 9:15:50 pm | ||
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Yankee1219 Joined: 12/03/2016 Posts: 113 West Allis Devil Dogs IV.2 
| On the topic of player intelligence, a player's baseball IQ can definitely impact a game. Whether it be a catcher calling a game, an outfielder knowing what base to throw to in a given situation, a pitcher knowing oppenents hot/cold zones, or a baserunner knowing when/when not to steal or take an extra base. Real life example...Carlos Gomez. Super fast, but a horrible baserunner. He felt his speed trumped all and he often ran himself and his team out of innings and wins because of his lack of intelligence. He would try to stretch a double into a triple down four runs late in the game, or try to steal third with two outs. Often, he didn't make it, leaving you scratching your head and losing games for his team. Just as managers can be "excellent teachers of the game", players could also be "excellent students of the game". |
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| #44271 | 01/23/2017 9:53:26 pm | ||
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MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive
| Wouldn't make much sense for me to disclose anything about hidden traits (if they do exist) -- seems like that would defeat the purpose. Haha! Things like this kill me. The manual states they exist, so why play games like that? I think the shroud of super secrecy here is overblown. We know very little about how anything operates here, so completely hiding things is completely unnecessary. For example, we know the basic idea of what skills are important for each position because the manual tells us. Does that ruin the game? Not at all. It's actually compelling because we don't known precisely how they all fit together. Which player would be fundamentally better at shortstop regarding defense--17/15/16, 15/17/16 or 16/16/16? We don't know (and that's even ignoring the fact that we don't know the exact ratings because they're only displayed in whole numbers and have a +-20% error rate). That's an example of something being hidden that works well for the game. The same applies for hitting and pitching skills. I loved Stratomatic as a kid, but you could easily calculate who the better player was. Broken Bat's hidden secret formulas make it more compelling and interesting. What isn't compelling, in my opinion, are the truly hidden traits. Things that impact gameplay that we don't know even know about don't make the game more interesting. It's a full moon so Tom sucks while Jerry rocks. Great. Not. The entire game is a mystery, so there's no need to throw forces unknown at us. Play ball. Updated Monday, January 23 2017 @ 10:10:48 pm PST |
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| #44282 | 01/24/2017 5:23:50 am | ||
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Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5202 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends 
| I beleive there is very little hidden. The human mind tries to find order in random. The discussion of hidden traits is blown out of proportion due to managers trying to rationalize how coin flips have landed. I'm disappointed Steve isn't allowed to interact with us on the forum. I read his post in the Legends forum as encouragement with a bit of humour added. He immediately gets pumped by one manager for information, and another goes offside b/c a benign comment was directed at an individual rather than the full player base. Disappointing. |
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| #44283 | 01/24/2017 6:49:55 am | ||
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MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive
| From the manual: There are however fixed player values that affect certain in-game outcomes. Their effect is significant, but much smaller than the effect of the relevant skill. Think all you want, the official manual says hidden traits are significant. Steve's comment in the Legends thread obviously had humor thrown in, but you have no idea how much truth might have been in the comments you are calling benign. Part of the statements about game play are clearly relevant. There's no way to know where the line between fact and fiction was drawn. One more thing--the forums are meant to be conversations and opinions. When I make a post, I expect absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, in return, response or action. This thread is in the DISCUSSIONS part of the forum. That's all it's meant to be. About Steve posting in the future, I'm not sure where you're coming up with the idea that he can't or won't interact at all. What he did say is that he will address gameplay type issues in Help and Discussion threads. Maybe there was a hidden message in there that only Legends got? (I'm joking, for crying out loud. Easy.) |
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| #44285 | 01/24/2017 11:36:27 am | ||
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Frankebasta Joined: 09/15/2013 Posts: 885 Kodiak Mules III.3 
| Nobody here recalls how Steve explained the algorithm for any AtBat? It is an interaction between Batter's skills, Pitcher's skills (and CATCHERS skills) And to a smaller extent Team defence comes to play It was a post from a long time ago, cannot find it... |
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| #44289 | 01/24/2017 12:44:36 pm | ||
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Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9608 Haverhill Halflings III.1
| Before my time. Catcher abilities being hidden, or "C"? | ||
| #44290 | 01/24/2017 12:45:47 pm | ||
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newtman Joined: 11/02/2013 Posts: 3343 Inactive
| My question was a joke... come on guys, lighten up, it is a game. I know we all want to win at the game, but the ultimate purpose is to have fun. On a side note, if some players started being "hot headed" and charging the mound became a thing I would start watching the games again. As is I get all the needed info from the game log and box score far quicker, without the stress that watching close losses bring to me. | ||
| #44295 | 01/24/2017 3:04:43 pm | ||
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MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive
| Watching the games adds to the fun level considerably. Of course it's more painful losing close ones, but the reverse is also true. Watching a dramatic win is thrilling. The side benefit is I think we actually might glean a little more from watching. I know I do, anyway. When I just read the summary, I occasionally miss some of the subtle things. For most games I have the settings at 1 second per pitch, which makes the game time around 10 minutes. I probably watch at least half the games and especially focus on my new pitchers. | ||
| #44298 | 01/24/2017 3:27:19 pm | ||
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Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9608 Haverhill Halflings III.1
| I'm 100% sure you are correct that you can get a better view of your players by watching the games. I just don't have the time. Wish I did  |
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