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michaeltodd2
Joined: 02/20/2018
Posts: 325

Paradise Valley Cubs
III.3

Broken Bat Baseball
Can having a lot of speed on your team, along with an aggressive approach (via team management settings) be an effective strategy in this game? Are their many owners that do this well? If so, can anyone give me any tips or whatnot, because i seem to have a lot of speed on my team, but not much experience on how best to utilize it...thank you.
MukilteoMike
Joined: 08/09/2014
Posts: 3294

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
Unfortunately there's no way to really force the issue. Either your guys are base stealers or they aren't. You can move their setting to + or ++, but if they don't like to steal, they're not going to no matter what. Even if they don't steal, speed is always good.

When you find a good base stealer, most people put them at the top of the lineup if they can get on base a little. If you have decent power in the 2 thru 4 slots, I would advise something quite different--put your base stealers in the bottom third of your lineup. Extra base hits can knock them in from anywhere. It's the single hitters that need the guys in front of them to advance an extra base here or there to score. Just my opinion and philosophy. Many disagree with it and me.
lostraven
Joined: 07/02/2016
Posts: 1269

Corvallis Ravens
III.1

Broken Bat Baseball
I'm mostly on Mike's page, though I'll also add that sometimes your batters more prone to steal are also your best sluggers. (Hardy and Santiago on my team.) Keep your slugging in mind also when making an evaluation on where to put that base stealer. I'm probably stating the obvious but... *shrug*
Haselrig
Joined: 04/13/2014
Posts: 2790

Novi Doubledays
IV.8

Broken Bat Baseball
Won a Legends championship using a variation of that model. Add .280-.300 hitting and you're closer to what I've been doing for the past half-decade or so. Add walks and you're likely going to have a team other owners have a hard time dealing with.

Like Mike says, speed does not equal steals. I like to look back at the players minors history. If he has a few minors season under his belt, it'll be pretty clear if he's a base-stealer or not. While you're on his minors page, check his BBs. If his walks average about %10 of his at bats, then you might have something. If, in addition to all that, he's hitting .300+, then he might be the engine that makes your offense go.
Seca
Joined: 05/05/2014
Posts: 5193

Waterloo Dinosaurs
Legends

Broken Bat Baseball
It's good you got some positive responses. :) I'm quite cynical of base stealing here.

There have been teams with good SB totals in my time. Mig's Orlando teams got into 20 stolen base runs territory a few times. Birmingham had nice totals with Gilbert at the top of the line up. But these weren't SB teams or even speed teams. They were teams with fantastic all round players that happened to steal bases.

Seattle is really the only team built around stolen bases to have a run of success (Legends) that I've seen. They surpassed 20 stolen base runs consistently. And while their SB machine gained them notoriety, it wasn't the key to their success. Their offence peaked middle of the pack, was more often bottom half. They won with pitching and defence.

Speed can be viable at lower levels, but gets worse as you climb. The issue is that it is extremely difficult to advance runners without a hit in BrokenBat. At lower levels it is easier to string hits together, but as you rise pitching and defence gets better. You suffer more from the whims of sequencing. The benefit of getting a runner to 2B is less, and the cost of having him thrown out is greater.

Speed isn't a bad stat. I think it's quite good. But it can't carry a team like power can. Waterloo has had a decent period of success with an offence built around speed. But we're not a speed team. We're pitching and defence team. If you are going to build your offence around speed, you better be able to pitch.

(May seem I'm snubbing Novi. They had 17 stolen base runs last season, and are sitting at that same value this season. Maybe unfair, but I don't see them as another Seattle. To me, Novi is a hitting team. They currently have a team batting average of .285. .285! That's 20 points better than the next best team in the League. 30 points better than the 2nd best team in the West. Same story last season - 36 points better than the next closest. I'm fairly confident Haselrig could X both Elkins and Stephens base stealing, and it would have minimal effect on team success. Swiping 2B isn't all that relevant when the next 5 guys are getting hits.)
Haselrig
Joined: 04/13/2014
Posts: 2790

Novi Doubledays
IV.8

Broken Bat Baseball
I think that's fair. I'm only really running out 2 1/2 base stealers a game. The fourth best is Khang with 3. I just happen to have two great ones that skew the numbers.

I'd prefer six guys who draw a ton of walks over a speed team if I had my druthers. A SB attempt has a fair shot at producing an out. A BB has zero risk. The main goal should be to produce as few outs-per-ABs as possible.

The thing with Broken Bat (and I think this is one of the keys to what makes this game so compelling and why I find these test league dumps a little worrisome) is that talent is hard to come by and the perfect prospect is so rare that they may as well not exist. You have to work with what you can get and you'll mostly only get two or three dimensional players instead of four or five dimensional players. It's up to the owner to decide which two or three dimensions they value the most.

For me, hitting is number one by a country mile. Positional fit/defense would be #2. I'll take whatever third thing you can give me after that. Just so happens that three of my 3D players had base stealing as their third thing. If that third thing had been walks or HRs, I'd be just as happy with them and would have changed my strategy to feature those talents.
Seca
Joined: 05/05/2014
Posts: 5193

Waterloo Dinosaurs
Legends

Broken Bat Baseball
I find these test league dumps a little worrisome

The test leagues are a pretty important addition. Waivers is the only way to equalize draft luck. Waiver liquidity has always been an issue, but (imo) had reached a new low in recent seasons in terms of impact.

You can look at the test league players as a type of draft reform. If its possible for teams to mitigate draft whiffs through waivers, there will be less consternation over poor early round picks.

I'd also argue few test players are "perfect". Most have the fingerprints of a computer manager. Ie., not trained at a useful / optimal fielding position.

All that said, the frequency of the releases may need to be tweaked. Does seem like a lot of them are hitting the wire. Something to watch.

You have to work with what you can get ... It's up to the owner to decide which two or three dimensions they value the most.

On first blush it sounds like teams in this thread as espousing different philosophies, but there is really just one.

- draft / waiver "great" hitters
- hope they have good hidden variables (like base stealing, hitting home runs seems to be hidden variable first, player skill second)
- HRs better than base stealing, base stealing better than nothing

In a way its good. A 12 pot with great hitting and strong hidden variables is going to have a better career than a 15 pot with good hitting and poor hidden variables. Tracking player performance and deducing hidden variables requires more skill than reading a pot bar.

But the majority of teams are not going to have enough talent depth to actually prioritize a certain play style.
amalric7
Joined: 01/20/2016
Posts: 2235

New York Lancers
IV.2

Broken Bat Baseball
I'd prefer six guys who draw a ton of walks over a speed team if I had my druthers. A SB attempt has a fair shot at producing an out. A BB has zero risk. The main goal should be to produce as few outs-per-ABs as possible.

That's almost straight out of Moneyball!

I'm going from memory here (because I can't be bothered getting out of my seat and taking the ten steps to the bookshelf!) but didn't the A's sign Dave Justice not for his power, which was waning, but because he could provide base hits and get on base, and also sign Ray Durham not for his base-stealing ability (73 SB one season on the Giants?) which was mostly gone but because he too could get on base? The A's famously devalued stolen bases because the value in them was less than walks and OBP.

You have to work with what you can get....For me, hitting is number one by a country mile.

- draft / waiver "great" hitters


This is my (and probably others) philosophy in a nutshell. I started off with a team of really good hitters who also got on base and hit for power, but they were (nearly) all old. It took a while for my pitching and defence to catch up but when it did I began to climb the pyramid. Eventually I transitioned from a pure power to an on-base offence with timely hitting, backed up by defence and pitching. SB are incidental - 86 SB (in 120 attempts) in 113 games to this point (and having 4/5 guys thrown out probably cost me a game last night when staying on base might have won it). You really do want to get the best hitters you can. "Good" and "Very Good" hitters are the minimum, "Great" is the ideal. You can get guys without a hitting report who can put up decent numbers if their other abilities/traits stack up (Miranda on my team, ignoring this down season: hits for a reasonable AVG, hits fly balls and home runs but also gets on base, steals occasional bases - although 60/105 is nothing to shout about!) but those guys are (IMO) the exception, not the rule.

I underlined flyball above because I believe (and I doubt this is splitting the atom) that flyballs mean more homers and less GIDP, and you want more of those guys...obviously getting them is easier said than done!
Rock777
Joined: 09/21/2014
Posts: 9568

Haverhill Halflings
III.1

Broken Bat Baseball
I'm not sure you can equalize luck with luck. Its more of a compounding effect. Having bad draft luck doesn't translate to having good waiver luck.

The reason there are a lot right now is because Steve is emptying out the teams and replacing them with Mexican and Japanese players. I doubt they will be dumping players at this rate once the teams have been converted.

Updated Sunday, February 17 2019 @ 7:47:32 am PST


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