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wickersty
Joined: 05/11/2017
Posts: 1002

Deadwood Perambulators
II.1

Broken Bat Baseball
hi guys,

I've been thinking a lot about this the past few days, and not sure what the right answer is.

First, I am going to have a pretty bad team this year and probably next year as well. It's total salary/age dump, rebuild phase.

That said, I have a few pitching rookies/2nd year guys that are young and have high potential ceilings. I want them to continue to get experience and develop as best as possible.

Now, since I'm going to suck this year, and probably not win a lot, and probably not have many save opportunities, would it be a bad idea to place my best young relief pitching rookies in SET, SET2, and CLR roles? Because the chances of having winning games to close out will be lower?

Should I instead place the young pitchers that I want to have the most opportunities to grow at roles such as LR and MR?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jeff
Rock777
Joined: 09/21/2014
Posts: 9569

Haverhill Halflings
III.1

Broken Bat Baseball
I'd make them starters if you want to maximize their experience gains and aren't worried about losing games.
wickersty
Joined: 05/11/2017
Posts: 1002

Deadwood Perambulators
II.1

Broken Bat Baseball
Even if they lack the appropriate stamina? And there's no evidence of that causing injury or other adverse effect?
Rock777
Joined: 09/21/2014
Posts: 9569

Haverhill Halflings
III.1

Broken Bat Baseball
You can keep their pitch count down to be safe, but I don't think injuries are tied to fatigue. Not 100% sure on that, but I don't think so. However you do it, I would just try to get them as many innings as possible. If your starters come out early then MR or LR could be good. If your starters go long, then you might skip out on LR a lot. Just watch to see how the team plays (or change management settings to make them play the way you want).

If you make them SET, then bring them in super early (give them an earliest inning of 4 or something). I wouldn't do closer since they probably won't get a lot of innings there.

Updated Friday, July 28 2017 @ 1:30:19 pm PDT
amalric7
Joined: 01/20/2016
Posts: 2235

New York Lancers
IV.2

Broken Bat Baseball
I'm questioning some of your moves with hitters, not pitchers. You've made some moves in the last few days that I consider off for a rebuilding side.

You're going to suck for a season or two, so what is the point in having guys like Akiyama (age 31) and Villa (29) on your team? They might make your team look slightly more respectable, but they take away AB and innings in the field from guys who need all the playing experience they can get, plus they provide you no longterm benefit.

Arenas, Perkins, Solano and Clinton are exactly the type of player you should have kept, under-developed age 27 (or so) guys with some room to grow who might offer decent upside and good performances for 3-4 seasons. Veras is a good signing, Howarth is not. Dressler is a waste of a roster spot, so is Prochazka who can't hit or walk and as a lefty SS will give you nothing but fielding woes. Tracy would make a good C. Esparza belongs in AAA, or maybe even AA for half a season, same for Caraballo. I would cut Loya, don't need a defensive whizz in CF when you already have enough guys who can't hit. Bryan has no upside as an 11 POT. Latin American players often develop slowly in this game and you have a lot, and they won't be ready for a couple of seasons even now.

Guys like those you just cut, or Dean, or Rice, or Picco, or Helm, or Leahy, or Guthrie are all better bets. They're all guys who can hit, and you can worry about position fit after you get some hitters on your roster.
wickersty
Joined: 05/11/2017
Posts: 1002

Deadwood Perambulators
II.1

Broken Bat Baseball
@amalric7 I'm glad you wrote that. First, I can't disagree with Villa and Akiyama. I'm just having a hard time letting them go. It tore me UP letting my star OF/1B Repetto go this offseason, but at 31/32 there was no point to him staying on my team, despite his great hitting ability. I suppose Villa and Akiyama have to go as well. But to be fair, I have made a LOT of cuts of guys in there 29-33y range that were difficult to do, so it's not like I haven't been willing to do that. I suppose I just need to pull the trigger on these last two guys too.

But in terms of the other guys you mentioned, two things:

1) the guys you are mentioning are all 27 or 28, which I had felt was too old. If I'm going to suck for a couple years, why sign a bunch of 27 & 28 year olds who are underdeveloped. Are they really going to develop all that much in their year 28-30 years? And even if they do, they will be 30 when I get decent as a team again.

2) I feel like the defensive skills (range/arm) of the guys you mentioned were just pain crappy and it didn't make sense to sign up for a field full of poor range/arm guys who might be able to hit. You disagree with that?

Thanks!

--EDIT--
Also, some of those new guys you mentioned I already have claims in on and are keeping my fingers crossed.

Jeff

Updated Friday, July 28 2017 @ 6:28:53 pm PDT
wickersty
Joined: 05/11/2017
Posts: 1002

Deadwood Perambulators
II.1

Broken Bat Baseball
@amalric7
I've made what I think I consider my final offseason roster adjustments, barring any waiver wins (my only remaining waiver claims are 10-70 claim long shots)

I understand your previous point, I think... that during this year down rebuild phase it's better to find the best hitters with the best underveloped potential and play them heavily, regardless ofquestionable defense, to "see what I've got" as it were. To see which guys wind up blossoming over the course of the season or two and are worth keeping, and which guys wind up being dead.

At that point I can worry more about defense. I get it. But I have to say, I still don't like the poor range and arm that leaves me with around the field. And let's say out of all the guys I'm giving a shot to, half of them show signs of having real offensive value. Great! But their range and arm aren't going to improve, so I'm left with guys that are going to give me a handful of years of good offense and bad defense.

Defense and Pitching is the saying, no? Isn't it self defeating to fill your field with bad range/arm defense?
amalric7
Joined: 01/20/2016
Posts: 2235

New York Lancers
IV.2

Broken Bat Baseball
Heh, good discussion. Age 27-28 isn't too old for where you're at, and although ideally you'd be looking for younger players those are harder and harder to find, so its about making do.

Not sure I followed you on the defensive skills of the players I listed. Arenas is a 15 POT (97 SI) player who can't hit so he's all defence: 18 SPD, 10 FD (could rise to 17) with 14 Range and a killer 19 Arm - what more would you want at SS, which should be defense first? A 15 POT guy like that could gain 12-15 SI with full-time AB. Perkins isn't that great a hitter either but he could take walks and hit for power, while playing potential gold glove winning defence at 2B. Those are the two prime defensive positions in this game, and you had two perfect guys for a rebuilding team - when you have that combo you can concentrate on getting hitters around them. Position eligibility isn't so important in the OF so Clinton with his 15 Range (range being the most important defensive attribute for the OF) could have played there from scratch, easy, plus he's a very good hit/power guy. Good to see Solano is back though, solid DH and maybe even 1B.

Everyone has their own priorities but I leave defence to last. Its easier (IMO) to watch your team grow and develop when you can win some games with hits, or with pitching, than to watch them getting blanked repeatedly because they can't score any runs.
wickersty
Joined: 05/11/2017
Posts: 1002

Deadwood Perambulators
II.1

Broken Bat Baseball
Good to hear you feel that 27-28 isn't too old. I had been feeling it was. I'm glad I got solano back too. He is absolutely mashing in spring training.

Interesting that you feel outfield fielding and arm ratings are less critical, and I assume you feel range is less critical at 3B and 1B? I had been under the assumption thT ideally you wanted fielding, range, and arm to be high wherever you could manage to put it.

Well, at this point in the offseason I've come full circle with my team building. All my major leaguers are very good or great hitting prospects between 24-26, with a couple 28. Almost all of them have mediocre fielding, range, and arm but there are a few shining exceptions.

As we move forward I'll be watching the waivers for a 2b/as that sacrifices a little of the hitting prowess for range/arm/fielding.

Great discussion!
amalric7
Joined: 01/20/2016
Posts: 2235

New York Lancers
IV.2

Broken Bat Baseball
Outfield range is important, fielding and arm less so, but you'll take them whenever - and wherever - you can. A good arm in CF and RF is great, fielding is always good, but if you have to choose just one take range. You can get by with just average fielding stats at 1B (someone who can field over all else preferably, just have to catch the ball on double plays), but decent fielding and arm is preferred at 3B, and good range is nice too.

Its about working with what you have, or can get. My best player is Ortiz, who is a terrific hitter. He has good range and a good arm at 3B, but his only average fielding leads to errors. So he's played more games at DH and in the OF now that I have some guys who might play the position better, but its not like I'm ever substituting Ortiz out for defence. Barry on the other hand is my latest patch attempt at SS, can't bat worth a lick and doesn't take walks, but has turned out very well defensively. I don't ever want to pinch hit for my SS (my choice). Jedi is my only OF with Range over 13-14, which is far from ideal, but that's because I've emphasised hitting over fielding. My minor leaguers should be better all-round, in time. As always its a gradual, ongoing process.


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