Broken Bat - Discussion Forum: Starting Pitcher Hook/Pitch Count Minimums

Forum >> Discussions >> Starting Pitcher Hook/Pitch Count Minimums

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date

#62497	01/11/2019 6:25:11 am	Apr 7th, 2039
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9596 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I just have an issue with the AI manager leaving a pitcher in after he loads up the bases and starts walking in runs. Pretty unrealistic. Updated Friday, January 11 2019 @ 6:25:27 am PST

#62541	01/12/2019 4:57:32 pm	Apr 13th, 2039
Hayseed Joined: 02/20/2018 Posts: 290 Hood River Hawks IV.1	I don't understand what you guys are talking about. I have used "openers" for most of my games in 2039. I have had my SP go less than 2 ip in 7 out of my 12 games so far this season including every game today. And 4 in a row if you include the Cup. kinda hilarious. kinda terrifying.

#62542	01/12/2019 5:01:56 pm	Apr 13th, 2039
Hayseed Joined: 02/20/2018 Posts: 290 Hood River Hawks IV.1	LOL, 4 of my SP have ERA's greater than 10.00 and 2 have greater than 20.00! I love how early season stats can look very extreme.

#62556	01/13/2019 8:06:46 am	Apr 14th, 2039
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9596 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Either way you have to trust your bullpen. I do trust my bullpen. That's the problem. If the starter is giving up 5 runs before he gets pulled, it doesn't give them much to work with.

#62559	01/13/2019 9:39:58 am	Apr 14th, 2039
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9596 Haverhill Halflings III.1	A hook of 4 doesn't change the activation for the first equation. Only the second. So he would still need to give up 3 runs before being pulled, but after loading up the bases a walking in two runs he would get pulled (instead of waiting for him to walk in 3 runs). With a hook of 5, the second equation is actually irrelevant right now. It can't ever occur.

#62659	01/21/2019 5:30:20 am	May 14th, 2039
lostraven Joined: 07/02/2016 Posts: 1269 Corvallis Ravens II.1	I sent a mail to Mike for some feedback before posting here, but I'd like to use this game as an example of, if not a lower hook, more fine control of when to pull a SP: http://brokenbat.org/game/3176342 My boy Bo Basso was cruising through eight, but he completely fell apart in the ninth, being allowed to stay in to give up six runs. Ideally, if I were the manager, I'd see back-to-back hits in the ninth, and before (maybe after) the first run is allowed, I'm pulling my SP and sending in a reliever. That's just my managing style. As is, as Mike points out, the only ways for that to happen in Broken Bat are 1. to have a Closer role, which I do not, and 2. to lower the pitch count for my starters. It sounds like if I roll without a closer and maintain high pitch counts, my starter will be left in to give up five or six in the ninth every time, which is a bit of a bummer to me. Could a lower minimum hook be the answer there? Yes, I see how it could be abused otherwise. Perhaps the reality is if I want to play with high pitch count for SP and no closer, I just have to swallow the fact that I'll lose a few games this way in the ninth? Updated Monday, January 21 2019 @ 5:31:19 am PST

#62660	01/21/2019 7:34:17 am	May 14th, 2039
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9596 Haverhill Halflings III.1	And if you have a closer, you will still lose games that way in the 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th innings. Having a closer isn't a solution. To pull a guy after giving up a run and allowing two runners on would require a hook of 2. Right now our hook is 5! So you have to give up 4 runs before having two men on activates the hook. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to allow a 3 hook. But if there are concerns about abuse, then make it 4. I really don't see how anyone could be abusing a 4 hook. Giving your opponent a 3 run lead isn't much of a cheat. Updated Monday, January 21 2019 @ 7:35:01 am PST

#62661	01/21/2019 8:14:17 am	May 14th, 2039
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5199 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	Right now our hook is 5! So you have to give up 4 runs before having two men on activates the hook. Errr …. Basically, the pitcher is replaced if either of the following conditions are true: - 2 * Earned Runs > Hook - Total Runs + Base Runners > Hook With a hook of 5 the pitcher will be removed after 3 earned runs. The only way base runners would be relevant with a 5 hook is if there are unearned run(s). Our management tools have limited context. Let's say you set a player to be pinch hit for. You might be down one and have this activate for a key AB. Or you might be up 4 and put a LF at SS for the final 3 innings. Personally I feel this allows for a lot of skill. Instead of creating complex flow charts to cover every possible permutation we have to make decisions around which setting is going to provide the most benefit (effect size) most often (frequency). Or if more hands on, which settings are most likely to help in a particular game. Is this a pattern with Basso? If not I wouldn't tinker. This particular game is the worst case scenario (2 ER, bases loaded, still in the game --> HR). If its happened before I'd be more inclined to reduce his pitch count (despite the 16 stam) than dream of lower hook values.

#62663	01/21/2019 9:52:08 am	May 14th, 2039
lostraven Joined: 07/02/2016 Posts: 1269 Corvallis Ravens II.1	Is this a pattern with Basso? If not I wouldn't tinker. This particular game is the worst case scenario (2 ER, bases loaded, still in the game --> HR). If its happened before I'd be more inclined to reduce his pitch count (despite the 16 stam) than dream of lower hook values. Oh, absolutely a valid point. In fact, I told Mike much the same thing; I need to look at past games to see if this is a pattern. Guess I'm still grumbly because optimally if the pitcher is looking gassed in the ninth (allows a couple base runners) I'm getting fidgety and thinking about bringing in relief. But that's pretty fine control, which is debatable in regards to its cost-benefit ratio programming wise for Steve. P.S. Only tangentially related, but would be nice to be able to see the stat lines for the last 10 games pitched / 20 games played on the player card. As is, I think I have to individually click each game result to find the starts for a specific pitcher. Updated Monday, January 21 2019 @ 9:56:33 am PST

#62664	01/21/2019 12:00:56 pm	May 14th, 2039
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9596 Haverhill Halflings III.1	The top equation is equivalent with a setting of 4 or 5. Only the base runner equation changes with setting of 4. That is why I was saying it should be no issue to put it down to 4. There is really only one common situation that is different between 4 and 5. If a pitcher gives up 2 runs and loads up the bases, I think its reasonable that we would want him pulled. With a 5 he stays in. With a 4 he gets pulled. I don't see how it is a desirable situation for anyone to leave their pitcher in for this situation...