Broken Bat - Suggestions: Eliminate Catcher Training

Forum >> Suggestions >> Eliminate Catcher Training

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date

#65957	06/01/2019 4:29:36 pm	Mar 4th, 2041
lostraven Joined: 07/02/2016 Posts: 1269 Corvallis Ravens II.1	To be blunt, I'd much rather Steve add catcher attributes we can draft on, e.g.: * catch rate * block rate * throw accuracy * pitch framing ... rather than just eliminate catcher training. I'm the bloody manager of my team; if I want to train Bob "I was a 1B in high school" Smith as a catcher, just let me do it. Sure, make it more difficult by a little bit, adding a full season more to train a catcher. But I'd rather have the freedom to train, not be told I can't.

#65960	06/01/2019 7:41:56 pm	Mar 4th, 2041
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9592 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I still like adding intelligence. I of course would also like to see players generated more sensically (thus my position templates suggestion). I would also like to see learning positions as a varied thing. Easy to learn OF/1B. Hard to learn C/SS. I think those three things combined would go a long way. It still makes sense that you could train an 18 year old in rookie ball to be a catcher, but probably not those 22 year old college kids (who are aged and set in their ways).

#66002	06/04/2019 2:21:21 pm	Mar 8th, 2041
hurstdm Joined: 01/18/2017 Posts: 576 Murfreesboro Moo Cows VI.5	Ravens: To be blunt, I'd much rather Steve add catcher attributes we can draft on You could absolutely add that stuff, but wouldn't it clutter up the player cards for the 90% of players who aren't catchers? There's a lot of value in the simplicity of using just the 8 main Broken Bat attributes. Or, if you only add it to created catchers, then isn't it basically what I'm suggesting we change? Doesn't it basically become a checkbox stat for catchers? Either you can do these things well or you can't. Either you can catch or you can't. Either he's got the "c" or he doesn't have the "c". Coding games like this is a balance of simplicity and realism. I think Broken Bat can keep the simplicity, yet enhance the realism. This change could set the realism right without adding extra attributes. Having the "c" would mean the guy has a good enough catch rate, block rate, pitch framing ability, etc. Everybody else doesn't. Halflings: I still like adding intelligence. I of course would also like to see players generated more sensically (thus my position templates suggestion). I would also like to see learning positions as a varied thing. Easy to learn OF/1B. Hard to learn C/SS. But have you considered these ideas enough to create your own suggestion thread for them? They're largely different animals. This is a catcher thread. Adding "Intelligence" could open a whole locked house full of tubs that are all full of cans of worms. Joking around, the majority of baseball players would probably score a "1" for intelligence on any scale you'd propose. It still makes sense that you could train an 18 year old in rookie ball to be a catcher, but probably not those 22 year old college kids (who are aged and set in their ways). No, it really doesn't. Catching is an unusual skill set that even otherwise great athetes simply do not have and cannot acquire to compete at the professional level. It's more than just "intelligence" or "athleticism". You could not have approached Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, or Albert Pujols at 18 and turned them into competent professional catchers. If teams could turn any strong-armed dude into a catcher, Major League Baseball teams wouldn't regularly play catchers with lifetime .235 batting averages (Chris Ianetta, Alex Avila, Jeff Mathis, Jason Castro, etc.) But they do. If anybody had a magic system to teach Joe Rockhead to catch, there's 30 major league teams that would gladly throw thousands of dollars at them.

#66007	06/04/2019 5:03:20 pm	Mar 10th, 2041
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9592 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Yep. There have been suggestion threads for all those ideas that I posted in the past. I'm not sure. I think you could train someone to be a catcher with 6-7 years of development. Maybe Pujols could learn to catch, but why would he want too? He can have a longer, lower risk career just slugging the ball. MLB teams do convert players into catchers in real life. Both Buster Posey and Jorge Posada were converted from infielders into catchers.

#66009	06/04/2019 6:12:42 pm	Mar 10th, 2041
Wine13 Joined: 12/06/2015 Posts: 28 Inactive	And some greats went the other way. Craig Biggio and Dale Murphy that I know of. Has nothing to do with the thread just wanted to drop the names

#66010	06/04/2019 6:54:03 pm	Mar 10th, 2041
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	I think a lot of what we do here is as it is in real life. "Your best shot at having a career in baseball is to be a catcher." Granted, that probably normally occurs before a player is 20 in real life, but I think it's reasonable here to be able to do it at any time. To Rock's point, I see no reason to restrict a 17 year old kid who is drafted to any position.

#66015	06/04/2019 7:56:53 pm	Mar 10th, 2041
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9592 Haverhill Halflings III.1	That thread I linked above is actually about the Marlins converting a then 27 year old Austin Nola from infielder to catcher in AAA. They also converted J.T. Realmuto into a catcher after drafting him into their system.

#66017	06/04/2019 8:45:15 pm	Mar 10th, 2041
hurstdm Joined: 01/18/2017 Posts: 576 Murfreesboro Moo Cows VI.5	Halflings: MLB teams do convert players into catchers in real life. Not really. They do not. Rightward shifts along the defensive spectrum almost never work. Leftwards went Biggio (from catching to second is remarkable) & Murphy (also remarkable shifting to center field). The Cows smell bull. Posey was a catcher in college. Posada was catching in pro ball at 19 and played few games at any position other than catcher in the minors.. Realmuto played catcher in high school. From the Broken Bat perspective, these guys had at least a "c" right from the beginning. The linked article mentions Austin Nola. They started to teach him catcher in AAA at age 26-27. He was already dead in the water as a prospect. That's public relations or an organizational emergency. No, Pujols could not learn to catch. His first couple of years, St. Louis didn't know what to do with him, but they never put him behind the plate. My guess is that he wouldn't have a good enough arm - and never had catching intangibles. Magicians: I see no reason to restrict a 17 year old kid who is drafted to any position. As discussed, because it's wildly unrealistic and feels wrong to pretend that just anybody with a good Arm can be a professional catcher. Broken Bat is generally well-coded, but I wish "a lot of what we do here is as it is in real life" would ring true for catchers. Under the current system, I'm tempted to just find a no-defense, almost no-arm designated hitter type I can and stick him at catcher. Waterloo suggested there's little defensive penalty for doing so. A big enough bat would completely overshadow abysmal defense behind the plate. Why shouldn't everybody do that? This should give baseball lovers the heebie jeebies.

#66020	06/05/2019 6:54:51 am	Mar 10th, 2041
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9592 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Posey was a catcher in college So basically a High School draftee converted to a catcher. Exactly what you called bull on earlier. You said you didn't think it was realistic for a High School player to learn how to play catcher, and I gave you a bunch of examples. Its obvious that you have a set and immovable view of the world in your head. As an ex-player myself who attended a top flight engineering school, I also found your the majority of baseball players would score a "1" for intelligence comment to be rather offensive. There are plenty of intelligence baseball players. It is bigoted to assume otherwise.

#66034	06/05/2019 1:29:37 pm	Mar 10th, 2041
hurstdm Joined: 01/18/2017 Posts: 576 Murfreesboro Moo Cows VI.5	Halflings: There are plenty of intelligence baseball players.