Game Date: May 10th, 2064
Help
Forum >> Help >> Range/Speed, Growth Rate 
| 
| 
| Post ID | Date & Time | Game Date | Function |
|---|---|---|---|
| #27174 | 11/21/2015 12:49:42 am | ||
|
thebuzz Joined: 12/24/2013 Posts: 59 Inactive 
| Still continue to be mystified how in a new training report a 24yo minor players range is decreased as his speed is retained. Range = Measured distance covered over a specified time. Speed = specified time to cover a measured distance Growth Rate: Is there a helpful formula someone has used to identify the average growth rate as a player ages? |
||
| #27178 | 11/21/2015 6:12:43 am | ||
|
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5201 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends 
| There are 3 skills for position players that are physical - they are traits of the player and don't improve with training (they will eventually decrease as a player enters his 30s due to aging). These skills are range, speed and arm. These skillls* can be misjudged by scouts by a small amount. That is what you are seeing here. They slightly over-estimated his range. By having the player in your system for a period of time, scouts have been able to judge it better. This is common. Of the players on my team that have come through my minor league system, over half have had a correction to arm or range. * speed doesn't seem to get misscouted. Guess they have good stop watches. PS - hard to give a growth rate. Depends on a number of factors like age, placement, random. My rule of thumb is ~1 point per season in the low minors, increasing to 1.5 to 2 points per season in the upper minors. But that is a very rough guideline. Updated Saturday, November 21 2015 @ 6:17:45 am PST |
||
| #27184 | 11/21/2015 6:44:34 am | ||
|
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9603 Haverhill Halflings III.1 
| After they have a couple years of development you can also look at the dev graph to get an idea about how they are growing in each skill. | ||
| #27216 | 11/23/2015 3:31:49 am | ||
|
thebuzz Joined: 12/24/2013 Posts: 59 Inactive
| These skills can be misjudged by scouts by a small amount. That is what you are seeing here. They slightly over-estimated his range. By having the player in your system for a period of time, scouts have been able to judge it better. So to understand correctly Seca, you are indicating the skill levels which indicate a player increased in a skill level, are not based on anything other than a scouts report? Any increase in training skills are not based on factual information but rather based on a scouts perceived observation throughout his career? In my previous example the two (speed/range) go hand in hand. Can't affect one, without affecting the other. You could add a third measurement such as agility, then affect the outcome. |
||
| #27217 | 11/23/2015 3:46:22 am | ||
|
garfscores Joined: 10/13/2014 Posts: 488 Battle Creek Sting IV.7 
| Range is not the same as speed. A player's range is also affected by the jump he gets when the ball is hit and the route he takes to the ball. Speed is part of range, but not the only thing that affects it. | ||
| #27218 | 11/23/2015 4:22:28 am | ||
|
solace36 Joined: 01/10/2014 Posts: 60 Inactive
| I think you just added in the third factor he was talking about, agility. | ||
| #27219 | 11/23/2015 4:33:20 am | ||
|
Endrju Joined: 05/28/2015 Posts: 577 Inactive
| "Speed is part of range, but not the only thing that affects it." Hmmm... You make it sound as if speed had impact on defensive plays. Logically, it should, especially in the outfield. But looking at the manual, it says nothing about speed actually being used in the outfield, the only relevant stat is range. When I started playing here I looked at my fastest guys and put them in OF. Then I read manual two more times and figured, that speed doesn't matter. I only look at range now. |
||
| #27226 | 11/23/2015 8:27:20 am | ||
|
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5201 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends
| So to understand correctly Seca, you are indicating the skill levels which indicate a player increased in a skill level, are not based on anything other than a scouts report? Any increase in training skills are not based on factual information but rather based on a scouts perceived observation throughout his career The player card is a scouting report. It is based on actual information Ie., if a player improves through training, this is observed and reflected. But what is shown may not be entirely accurate. Not just the skills but the overall potential bar may be off. The verbal scouting may be off*. In all these cases, it isn't off by much, but there is some uncertainty. For many managers the player card isn't the whole story. A player's actual performance should be considered alongside. * - some may say verbal scouting is completely accurate and the implied ranges are broader. Same idea, just phrased differently. In my previous example the two (speed/range) go hand in hand. Can't affect one, without affecting the other. You could add a third measurement such as agility, then affect the outcome. There isn't any need for agility. As you've suggested, its baked into range. Range is a more useful skill to have. Some time ago speed and range were independent skills. Guys like my Enriquez are a remnant of that era (he used to have 17 range). Managers suggested it would be more realistic if there was a correlation between speed and range - a suggestion that was adopted. So more modern players have a closer connection between the skills. There can still be differences - due to agility as you noted. Edit: And just to clarify, from a practical point of view: Range = Measured distance covered over a specified time. Speed = specified time to cover a measured distance The distance in the range comment is on defense. The distance in the speed comment is on offense. The actual speed skill does not come into play on defense. (Speedy players do typically have good range due to the correlation between the two). Updated Monday, November 23 2015 @ 8:36:08 am PST |
||
| #27234 | 11/23/2015 2:23:06 pm | ||
|
garfscores Joined: 10/13/2014 Posts: 488 Battle Creek Sting IV.7
| @Endrju - this is what I mean: The distance in the range comment is on defense. |
||
| #27263 | 11/23/2015 10:44:48 pm | ||
|
thebuzz Joined: 12/24/2013 Posts: 59 Inactive
| Much appreciate those that took the time to post in my original thread submission, Thanks! All good points and for me a much better understanding of how various aspects of skills are compiled then utilized here. Best of luck in your new season. | ||
| #30290 | 02/06/2016 11:23:44 am | ||
|
motko Joined: 09/06/2014 Posts: 358 Nauvoo The Great Horned Owl IV.6 
| My max douglas lost arm skill at the age of 18-19. Is this about miscouting? I think he even lost potential from 14 to 13.. About the original thread, i think on real life its about couple of first steps. the player reacts fast and on the right direction.. |
||
| #30292 | 02/06/2016 11:54:06 am | ||
|
newtman Joined: 11/02/2013 Posts: 3343 Inactive
| When a player loses arm skills when he is still under 30, that is scouting inaccuracies. Keep in mind that the 14 potential projection was including the skills in the arm, so it would be possible for such a correction to take place. | ||
| #30297 | 02/06/2016 2:10:22 pm | ||
|
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9603 Haverhill Halflings III.1
| Yeah, it means he as just barely a 14. Now you know he should be able to get max POT 13 SI. | ||
| #30455 | 02/10/2016 10:29:30 am | ||
|
wuggla Joined: 05/10/2013 Posts: 1059 Colorado Springs Vultures VI.28 
| Wow good info about range and speed. i always knew that those 3 skils were like permenent speed range and arm. i have seen players loose arm and range and speed in minors also. knowing those 3 skills are 1st to decline when players hit 30+ age also. but that info were i say i learned the most is when it said about scouting and POT/SI...... ???So the scouting is scouting the longer a player is with your team the better it gets """CORRECT""" Thus if you draft your cherry picked player 3years later his arm decreased you know that scouting is more accurate now then when you drafted. just to note to all theese can increase also i have seen players range increase in minors. |
||
| #30456 | 02/10/2016 10:46:30 am | ||
|
Crazy Li Joined: 01/25/2015 Posts: 879 Inactive
| Yes, scouting becomes more accurate over time to reflect reality. You don't really know how good an 18 yo out of high school is going to be. You can mostly just guess. By the time he's 28 and has been playing in the majors already, you have a much better idea of his capabilities. The more you see a player play, the better you understand how well he can play. |
||
| #30461 | 02/10/2016 11:37:19 am | ||
|
admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator 
| Yes, scouting becomes more accurate over time to reflect reality. You don't really know how good an 18 yo out of high school is going to be. You can mostly just guess. By the time he's 28 and has been playing in the majors already, you have a much better idea of his capabilities. The more you see a player play, the better you understand how well he can play. Yes...well stated. That's what the game is trying to model. Of course, if he starts juicing at 28 yo...then all bets are off.  Steve |
||
| |